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	Comments on: The zeitgeist of a story	</title>
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	<link>https://moriahjovan.com/talesofdunham/blog/the-zeitgeist-of-a-story/</link>
	<description>Never underestimate the commercial value of mental illness.</description>
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		<title>
		By: MoJo		</title>
		<link>https://moriahjovan.com/talesofdunham/blog/the-zeitgeist-of-a-story/#comment-7946</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoJo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moriahjovan.com/mojo/?p=1608#comment-7946</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi, Heloise and welcome!

Aside: I do not know how my stupid blog ate my own comment. I know it was here, and now I can&#039;t remember what I said.

*sigh*]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Heloise and welcome!</p>
<p>Aside: I do not know how my stupid blog ate my own comment. I know it was here, and now I can&#8217;t remember what I said.</p>
<p>*sigh*</p>
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		<title>
		By: Heloise		</title>
		<link>https://moriahjovan.com/talesofdunham/blog/the-zeitgeist-of-a-story/#comment-7944</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Heloise]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 04:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moriahjovan.com/mojo/?p=1608#comment-7944</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yes, yes, and yes.  I was drawn to this blog entry by the cover of my favorite book of all time. The Wolf and The Dove.  I will admit that I haven&#039;t read it since I went to college and got all self actualized but do we really think all these shape changing were creatures humping ladies out in the woods won&#039;t seem sort of &#039;dated&#039; ten years from now?  This is called mass market for a reason.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, yes, and yes.  I was drawn to this blog entry by the cover of my favorite book of all time. The Wolf and The Dove.  I will admit that I haven&#8217;t read it since I went to college and got all self actualized but do we really think all these shape changing were creatures humping ladies out in the woods won&#8217;t seem sort of &#8216;dated&#8217; ten years from now?  This is called mass market for a reason.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dude		</title>
		<link>https://moriahjovan.com/talesofdunham/blog/the-zeitgeist-of-a-story/#comment-7943</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dude]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 04:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moriahjovan.com/mojo/?p=1608#comment-7943</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dude is very annoyed by people who can&#039;t spell a person&#039;s name correctly.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dude is very annoyed by people who can&#8217;t spell a person&#8217;s name correctly.</p>
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		<title>
		By: MoJo		</title>
		<link>https://moriahjovan.com/talesofdunham/blog/the-zeitgeist-of-a-story/#comment-7945</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoJo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 03:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moriahjovan.com/mojo/?p=1608#comment-7945</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;do we really think all these shape changing were creatures humping ladies out in the woods won’t seem sort of ‘dated’ ten years from now&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And I have my theories on THAT, too, as it seems lately I&#039;ve heard tell a few of the werebeasts have started to not fully shift into human before mating. 

I&#039;m wondering what that says about our time, right now. ;)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>do we really think all these shape changing were creatures humping ladies out in the woods won’t seem sort of ‘dated’ ten years from now</p></blockquote>
<p>And I have my theories on THAT, too, as it seems lately I&#8217;ve heard tell a few of the werebeasts have started to not fully shift into human before mating. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m wondering what that says about our time, right now. 😉</p>
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		<title>
		By: MoJo		</title>
		<link>https://moriahjovan.com/talesofdunham/blog/the-zeitgeist-of-a-story/#comment-7942</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoJo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moriahjovan.com/mojo/?p=1608#comment-7942</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Robin, not ignoring your comment (thank you, by the way). I&#039;m stewing it over in my head.

And yes, thank you for pointing out that legal rape is RIGHTFULLY desexualized and I wanted to make that distinction.

As for 80s hair and fashion, well, it was awesome THEN! :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin, not ignoring your comment (thank you, by the way). I&#8217;m stewing it over in my head.</p>
<p>And yes, thank you for pointing out that legal rape is RIGHTFULLY desexualized and I wanted to make that distinction.</p>
<p>As for 80s hair and fashion, well, it was awesome THEN! 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: MoJo		</title>
		<link>https://moriahjovan.com/talesofdunham/blog/the-zeitgeist-of-a-story/#comment-7941</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoJo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moriahjovan.com/mojo/?p=1608#comment-7941</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Huckleberry Finn because it’s “racist”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You know what? I thought about that very book and the hullabaloo that surrounds it about every two years.

&lt;blockquote&gt;all the girls checked it out at least once&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Thank you! That was a point I forgot to make.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Huckleberry Finn because it’s “racist”</p></blockquote>
<p>You know what? I thought about that very book and the hullabaloo that surrounds it about every two years.</p>
<blockquote><p>all the girls checked it out at least once</p></blockquote>
<p>Thank you! That was a point I forgot to make.</p>
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		<title>
		By: MoJo		</title>
		<link>https://moriahjovan.com/talesofdunham/blog/the-zeitgeist-of-a-story/#comment-7939</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoJo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moriahjovan.com/mojo/?p=1608#comment-7939</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Methinks someone didn&#039;t get the &quot;lit crit&quot; theme of the post, which is to say, if you purport to study romance novels as literature, consider the time in which they were written, as you would any other piece of literature.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Methinks someone didn&#8217;t get the &#8220;lit crit&#8221; theme of the post, which is to say, if you purport to study romance novels as literature, consider the time in which they were written, as you would any other piece of literature.</p>
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		<title>
		By: alphabitch		</title>
		<link>https://moriahjovan.com/talesofdunham/blog/the-zeitgeist-of-a-story/#comment-7940</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[alphabitch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moriahjovan.com/mojo/?p=1608#comment-7940</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;he “rapes her until she loves him.”&quot; ... hey, I think we had that one in my high school library! Or one of those ones. Or something. It was SCANDALOUS ... all the girls checked it out at least once. hahaha

Yeah, um, y&#039;know ... revisionist literary criticism irks me. This reminds me of people who freak out about Huckleberry Finn because it&#039;s &quot;racist&quot;. If you&#039;re not going to consider the context, don&#039;t pretend you&#039;re seriously considering the book as &quot;literature&quot;. Life isn&#039;t always politically correct, and neither is all the literature that life inspires.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;he “rapes her until she loves him.”&#8221; &#8230; hey, I think we had that one in my high school library! Or one of those ones. Or something. It was SCANDALOUS &#8230; all the girls checked it out at least once. hahaha</p>
<p>Yeah, um, y&#8217;know &#8230; revisionist literary criticism irks me. This reminds me of people who freak out about Huckleberry Finn because it&#8217;s &#8220;racist&#8221;. If you&#8217;re not going to consider the context, don&#8217;t pretend you&#8217;re seriously considering the book as &#8220;literature&#8221;. Life isn&#8217;t always politically correct, and neither is all the literature that life inspires.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Victoria Janssen		</title>
		<link>https://moriahjovan.com/talesofdunham/blog/the-zeitgeist-of-a-story/#comment-7937</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Victoria Janssen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moriahjovan.com/mojo/?p=1608#comment-7937</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Interesting post!

I&#039;m going to think about it for a while.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to think about it for a while.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robin		</title>
		<link>https://moriahjovan.com/talesofdunham/blog/the-zeitgeist-of-a-story/#comment-7936</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moriahjovan.com/mojo/?p=1608#comment-7936</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have many thoughts at once, which may or may not all be in concert.

First, it strikes me that a lot of these 70s and 80s novels are historical Romances, so the &quot;zeitgeist&quot; of the times is something that may not have been understood *at the time* or now.  

Rape, for example, is such an interesting subject in Romance, and I know of many readers who will not ever tolerate any forced seduction at any time and in any place no matter what Nancy Friday wrote. Also, I think there&#039;s so much more to the topos than what Friday said that I understand why some readers take it literally (even though legal rape is a violent crime that has been intentionally desexualized), and I understand why some readers see it as only a sexual fantasy. I see it differently than either of those kinds of readers.  

Now, as for making fun of the 70s and 80s, OMG some of those fashion choices and hair! Having survived the 80s myself, it is as much making fun of myself as it is the stuff in those books. Just reading Tom and Sharon Curtis&#039;s 80s contemps is such a trip, in a good and wince-worthy way.  But I think you&#039;re talking about something different.

One of the reasons I think it&#039;s difficult for readers to take a book on its own historical terms (I think this is really what you&#039;re talking about) is that books are not always a straight mirror between reader and historical context. I don&#039;t think we always understand, either currently or even in hindsight, why certain things came to the fore in the genre. Was it just the time, was it marketing mimesis (you know: well, it sold in THAT novel, so let&#039;s publish a hundred of &#039;em), was it an intra or inter-genre debate, etc.? Also, I think that many readers really resist the idea of &quot;studying&quot; Romance novels, which is why they are more likely to be dismsisive or critical of things that require some thought to suss out. 

I don&#039;t know if any of that makes sense, but it&#039;s most of what came out of the top of my head, lol.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have many thoughts at once, which may or may not all be in concert.</p>
<p>First, it strikes me that a lot of these 70s and 80s novels are historical Romances, so the &#8220;zeitgeist&#8221; of the times is something that may not have been understood *at the time* or now.  </p>
<p>Rape, for example, is such an interesting subject in Romance, and I know of many readers who will not ever tolerate any forced seduction at any time and in any place no matter what Nancy Friday wrote. Also, I think there&#8217;s so much more to the topos than what Friday said that I understand why some readers take it literally (even though legal rape is a violent crime that has been intentionally desexualized), and I understand why some readers see it as only a sexual fantasy. I see it differently than either of those kinds of readers.  </p>
<p>Now, as for making fun of the 70s and 80s, OMG some of those fashion choices and hair! Having survived the 80s myself, it is as much making fun of myself as it is the stuff in those books. Just reading Tom and Sharon Curtis&#8217;s 80s contemps is such a trip, in a good and wince-worthy way.  But I think you&#8217;re talking about something different.</p>
<p>One of the reasons I think it&#8217;s difficult for readers to take a book on its own historical terms (I think this is really what you&#8217;re talking about) is that books are not always a straight mirror between reader and historical context. I don&#8217;t think we always understand, either currently or even in hindsight, why certain things came to the fore in the genre. Was it just the time, was it marketing mimesis (you know: well, it sold in THAT novel, so let&#8217;s publish a hundred of &#8217;em), was it an intra or inter-genre debate, etc.? Also, I think that many readers really resist the idea of &#8220;studying&#8221; Romance novels, which is why they are more likely to be dismsisive or critical of things that require some thought to suss out. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if any of that makes sense, but it&#8217;s most of what came out of the top of my head, lol.</p>
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